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la_Isla_hermosa's avatar

I agree with all of this except a few things were really off base:

"This separation between religion and science freed society not only from religious dogma but also allowed it to flourish in directions that were previously considered inadmissible."

The Catholic Church’s pursuit of scientific discovery built foundation of modern science, showing that religious dogma does not inherently hinder human flourishing. The Galileo affair, often framed as dogmatic impediment to "progress", was partly driven by politics and rivalries with the Counter-Reformation, a pattern similar in modern academia’s politically motivated rejections of theories or research outcomes.

Think of dogma as a protective framework for integrity, not a sacred thing. Dogmatic beliefs are not exclusive to religion; it pervades any domain including science and secularism. Dogma is neutral; harmful if abused or misapplied.

One historical example where secular scientific dogma obstructed human flourishing is the widespread acceptance of eugenics in the early 20th century. Another example is the current practice of providing minors with irreversible gender-affirming care, despite evidence that most reconsider their decisions by age 18, reflecting scientific denial many times more egregious than the Church’s historical rejection of Galileo’s heliocentrism.

>"after the ages of religious obscurantism, witch-hunts, and irrational superstitions, some progress has been made and this became one of the pillars of

Though witch hunts were used to critique religious dogma as backwards, even dangerous, since we continue to use "witch hunt" to scribe observable behavior today, clearly "with hunts" reflect human nature’s scapegoating tendency. Christianity did not consider witchcraft heresy until the 13 to 17th centuries which coincided with a historical unprecedented string of crises like plagues, war, disease, civil unrest, etc. that prompted explanation and resolution.

Today’s secular progressive cancel culture--potentially impacting one's livelihood and safety-- under the guess of "progress" and "compassion", it's a sneaky witch hunt against anyone doesn't toe the line on progressive dogma. A Christian saying, "I'm Ok with gay marriage" the same as saying, "I'm not a witch."

>"modern secularism upon which principles of democracy and human rights were built."

Where do rights come from? I refer you to the Declaration of Independence.

Rights come from God, based on the Christin belief in intrinsic human dignity and value. In fact, the Founding Fathers, whom most were Christian and a few were Deists, believed that the "American experiment" would fail without the moral buttress of Christianity. Secular government was never their intention for the US. Rather they aspired to Christianity sectarian harmony through religious. Also, the US is not a democracy, it is a representative constitutional republic.

Without a divine authority, human rights cease to be intrinsic, becoming a matter of mere consensus. All of this being said, ironically, that you didn't question your assumptions on these topics reflects dogmatic secular beliefs. We're on track for post-material but what seems to be in the way is secularism, not religious dogma.

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Don Salmon's avatar

Is there any scientific experiment ever conducted that doesn't begin with first person experience?"

There is a myth that scientific research is purely third person.

But how do you get to third person:

the "law" of gravity, of thermodynamics?

Right at the beginning, there was a first person observation of sensory experience.

No matter how much you abstract from that original experience - quantify it, abstract the relationships between quantities - you can't ever escape the original first person experience.

I'd love to see a series examining STEP BY STEP a physics experiment and make the precise connection for each step, with the original first person experience.

I think this is the way to show that not only are spirituality and science not opposed, they begin at the exact same place - only science looks outward and spirituality looks inward.

Though of course, with spirituality one reaches a point where there is no longer possible a precise distinction between inward and outward because there is only seamless Reality.

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